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| − | == Recommended distros for beginners == | + | == Google Sites? == |
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| − | I don't think Debian is a good choice for newbies. --[[User:Morpheus|Morpheus]] ([[User talk:Morpheus|talk]]) 22:53, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
| + | Calling [[User:Cptcorax]] here. |
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| − | It disgusts me that you want newbies to use an infested distro that doesn't respect their privacy like Ubuntu, with their horribly out-of-date official repos filled with software patched until it's nearly falling apart, with bugs specific only to its own family, and nearly no contribution or relation with upstream. Not a single Ubuntu install has worked fine for me over 3~ years, while pretty much every other distro does work. At the point where you're willing to call that a newbie-friendly experience, you might as-well recommend them Gentoo, as even that gave me less trouble than Ubuntu usually does, and that's not even bringing up Ubuntu's relation with Amazon and how utterly horrible and in-experienced with Linux their forums are. I have installed Debian, and guess what, it's not hard at all, I've begun contemplating that "installing debian is harder than shitbuntu" is a myth, since Debian's installation is literally spamming "next" and choosing your own DE and username/password. Please stop recommending Linux that doesn't respect the user. --Topcuck1337 at blahblah date, I can't even into wiki editing.
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| − | First of all, let's break down your points.
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| − | >horribly out-of-date official repos
| + | Google Sites? I mean, Google? I don't want /flt/ to be littered with posts like |
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| − | Isn't Ubuntu's repo more up-to-date than Debian jessie?
| + | {{bc|>google |
| | + | lol botnet}} |
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| − | >Not a single Ubuntu install has worked fine for me over 3~ years
| + | I'm all for improvements, but not anything that can trigger a degradation in post quality. So here's my piece of advice: Move it to a safe (or at least) borderline (controversial, but not meme tier) website. |
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| − | Your experience != Their experience. Don't force your experience down their throat
| + | == Script == |
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| − | >It disgusts me that you want newbies to use an infested distro that doesn't respect their privacy like Ubuntu,
| + | I've more or less lost all motivation on that script, so if anyone wants to take it, or maybe just remove it, that'd be fine. --[[User:Se7en|Se7en]] ([[User talk:Se7en|talk]]) 18:42, 9 February 2016 (EST) |
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| − | I understand that Ubuntu (Unity) with Amazon is bullshit. That's why the OP didn't include Unity into the list of recommended distros.
| + | == IRC == |
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| − | >>Please stop recommending Linux that doesn't respect the user.
| + | You removed the IRC. Some people use it though.--[[User:Se7en|Se7en]] ([[User talk:Se7en|talk]]) 21:19, 9 February 2016 (EST) |
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| − | >recommending Debian, [https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html which isn't "Respecting Your Freedom" according to FSF] | + | :Yeah, '''6''' people and all silent. Plenty of people, eh? <small>[[User:Morpheus|<span style="border:1px solid black;color:black; padding:1px;background:#fff"> Morpheus ]][[User talk:Morpheus|<span style="border:1px solid black;color:white; padding:1px;background:#000">talk</span></span>]]</small> 14:02, 20 February 2016 (EST) |
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| − | If I were to recommend distros that respects your privacy and freedom, I'd recommend the [http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.en.html FSF-endorsed distros] instead.
| + | == Changing the format == |
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| − | --[[User:Morpheus|Morpheus]] ([[User talk:Morpheus|talk]]) 07:02, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
| + | If you're going to change the format, TALK about it here first and try to reach a consensus. |
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| − | >Isn't Ubuntu's repo more up-to-date than Debian jessie?
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| − | That's why you use Debian testing/SID. Stable is more suitable for servers goy.
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| − | >Your experience != Their experience. Don't force your experience down their throat
| + | [[User:Galactus|— Galactus]] ([[User talk:Galactus|talk]]) 12:55, 22 February 2016 (EST) |
| − | That's understandable, even though said experience was consistent across multiple machines.
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| − | >I understand that Ubuntu (Unity) with Amazon is bullshit. That's why the OP didn't include Unity into the list of recommended distros.
| + | :[http://archive.is/VqdTD First debate.] |
| − | You realize, the issue is not simply Unity, it's the fact that the devs who included Amazon into the default OS are the same breed of those that maintain the repos, not to mention their repos are heavily patched, and the variants use the same repos. If the devs included Amazon spyware in the default DE, how can we be sure their patches don't include spyware too?
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| − | >If I were to recommend distros that respects your privacy and freedom, I'd recommend the [http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.en.html FSF-endorsed distros] instead.
| + | :[http://archive.is/yUSwm Second debate, consensus reached.] --[[User:Ck|Ck]] ([[User talk:Ck|talk]]) 13:40, 22 February 2016 (EST) |
| − | Let's see what they say about Debian.
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| − | >Debian's Social Contract states the goal of making Debian entirely free software, and Debian conscientiously keeps nonfree software out of the official Debian system. However, Debian also provides a repository of nonfree software. According to the project, this software is “not part of the Debian system,” but the repository is hosted on many of the project's main servers, and people can readily learn about these nonfree packages by browsing Debian's online package database.
| + | ::Oh, it's fine then. Got all riled up for no reason. [[User:Galactus|— Galactus]] ([[User talk:Galactus|talk]]) 14:48, 22 February 2016 (EST) |
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| − | >There is also a “contrib” repository; its packages are free, but some of them exist to load separately distributed proprietary programs. This too is not thoroughly separated from the main Debian distribution.
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| − | >Previous releases of Debian included nonfree blobs with Linux, the kernel. With the release of Debian 6.0 (“squeeze”) in February 2011, these blobs have been moved out of the main distribution to separate packages in the nonfree repository. However, the problem partly remains: the installer in some cases recommends these nonfree firmware files for the peripherals on the machine.
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| − | Which can be summed up as,
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| − | Debian keeps the non-free out of the default installation, but still offers it on their servers.
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| − | In comparison to Ubuntu,
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| − | Fill the default OS with proprietary, telemetry, and Amazon.
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| − | Debian is relatively much more "free" compared to Ubuntu, and let's be honest, most modern hardware requires le proprietary blobs, so you're gonna have them running either way, the "free" argument that comes with Linux is reducing non-free as much as possible. With Debian does so much more than Ubuntu.
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| − | Also, in my opinion, I think the FSF's arguments against Debian are boolshiet, as they're too strict with everything anyway.
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| − | However, I believe that recommending a FSF-endorsed distro is STILL better than Ubuntu, much better actually. I would use them if only they worked with my hardware. -Topcuck1337 at blahblah date.
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| − | >You realize, the issue is not simply Unity, it's the fact that the devs who included Amazon into the default OS are the same breed of those that maintain the repos, not to mention their repos are heavily patched, and the variants use the same repos. If the devs included Amazon spyware in the
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| − | default DE, how can we be sure their patches don't include spyware too?
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| − | I'm not entirely sure about this, but don't they include the source code?
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| − | >Which can be summed up as, Debian keeps the non-free out of the default installation, but still offers it on their servers.
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| − | >In comparison to Ubuntu, Fill the default OS with proprietary, telemetry, and Amazon.
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| − | >Debian is relatively much more "free" compared to Ubuntu, and let's be honest, most modern hardware requires le proprietary blobs, so you're gonna have them running either way, the "free" argument that comes with Linux is reducing non-free as much as possible. With Debian does so much more than Ubuntu.
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| − | Okay, but won't it create a problem with *especially* Broadcom-powered devices? Since without a proprietary driver enabled by default, it can't function at all.
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| − | So, to finish this up, add Debian, without removing Ubuntu first? since in your last edit you also included Mint, and Mint is an Ubuntu off-spring (unless you're talking about LMDE, which isn't "advertised" as much as the Ubuntu-based version) anyway won't it be irrelevant to delete Ubuntu?
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| − | --[[User:Morpheus|Morpheus]] ([[User talk:Morpheus|talk]]) 23:18, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
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| − | >I'm not entirely sure about this, but don't they include the source code?
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| − | I believe the source code can be found somewhere on the internet, but it's the same argument that goes against systemd, how many eyes do you actually think are monitoring and auditing every single patched package that goes into Ubuntu? Non-Canoncial eyes, that is. I believe it is generally good practice to abandon everything made by a developer that can justify selling their user's information to third parties.
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| − | >Okay, but won't it create a problem with *especially* Broadcom-powered devices? Since without a proprietary driver enabled by default, it can't function at all.
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| − | So with Debian, WiFi-enabled Broadcom devices are stuck in that state where they can't use networking and can't download their own drivers to fix it? Indeed I would suppose that fixing that is too much work for a novice Linux user.
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| − | >So, to finish this up, add Debian, without removing Ubuntu first? since in your last edit you also included Mint, and Mint is an Ubuntu off-spring (unless you're talking about LMDE, which isn't "advertised" as much as the Ubuntu-based version) anyway won't it be irrelevant to delete Ubuntu?
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| − | To be honest, I'd go as far as removing everything Ubuntu related. Though I wonder, does LMDE include those Broadcom drivers? If so, it'd be a perfect candidate to go there instead of the Ubuntu stuff. How about Antergos? The devs aren't retarded like Manjaro ones, and Antergos works really well. --Topcuck1337, blahblah date.
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| − | >I believe the source code can be found somewhere on the internet, but it's the same argument that goes against systemd, how many eyes do you actually think are monitoring and auditing every single patched package that goes into Ubuntu? Non-Canoncial eyes, that is. I believe it is generally good practice to abandon everything made by a developer that can justify selling their user's information to third parties.
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| − | Back to the systemd argument again, eh? But your point is fair enough.
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| − | >So with Debian, WiFi-enabled Broadcom devices are stuck in that state where they can't use networking and can't download their own drivers to fix it? Indeed I would suppose that fixing that is too much work for a novice Linux user.
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| − | Assuming that Debian has a Broadcom driver inside their LiveISO/netinstall, and they give option to install it just like how Architect does, it would be possible to use networking, but I don't think they have it.
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| − | >To be honest, I'd go as far as removing everything Ubuntu related. Though I wonder, does LMDE include those Broadcom drivers? If so, it'd be a perfect candidate to go there instead of the Ubuntu stuff.
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| − | I'm not sure, LMDE is LinuxMint derived directly from Debian, assuming they are just Debian + Cinnamon + yadda yadda Mint's greeny shit, Broadcom won't be incuded.
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| − | >How about Antergos? The devs aren't retarded like Manjaro ones, and Antergos works really well.
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| − | Antergos is rolling-release, I don't think newbies would be immediately comfortable with rolling-releases. Cnchi installer was a pain though compared to Architect's.
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| − | --[[User:Morpheus|Morpheus]] ([[User talk:Morpheus|talk]]) 14:06, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
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| − | Addendum: Debian does include non-free drivers in some images of their installation medium, [http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/ but you have to dig deep to get it.]
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